YTSEJAM Digest 1082 Today's Topics: 1) Re: techie question... by Fredrick McConnell 2) my ACoS article, AD sub site by Matt Masi 3) osaka show by "=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCPi5OUyEhNzAbKEI=?= " 4) PPV Video/Thought Industry by email_address_removed (Stefan T. Rau) 5) Shadow Gallery by - Shaggy - 6) ****IMPORTANT**** by Bandersnatch 7) Neil Gallop, nin by The Digital Man 8) My scrotum smells like broccoli!!! Mm, mm, good!! by The Digital Man 9) Re: Dream Theater vs. nine inch nails by email_address_removed (Zack Gemmill) 10) Re: ?????IMPORTANT????? by email_address_removed (Zack Gemmill) 11) Re: Dream Theater vs. nine inch nails by "R. Hailey" 12) NIN with DT by Matthew Sirois 13) *****IMPORTANT***** by email_address_removed (John Hough) 14) Heavy Bones (NO DT) by email_address_removed (John Hough) 15) Information Needed!!--Please Read by Ryan J Benedict 16) Fwd: CDnow! Order by email_address_removed (Michael Coghlan ) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 23:37:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Fredrick McConnell To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: techie question... Message-ID: The CD cannot be playing "slower", but the tape was probably always faster. CD players read digital information, and store the bits in a buffer (usu about 10 sec. worth of data) and the info in the buffer is converted from digital information to acoustic vibrations. That's why it can't be slow. You probably just got accustomed to it faster than natural on the tape. Unless, of course, the master of the CD was done slower than the tape master, which is a posibility. Someone screwed up in the post-production (I'm an engineer, I've screwed up a time or two! ::) Fred | | || | | | || || | | |Fred McConnell | | || | | | || || | | |QMS Court Choirmeister | | || | | | || || | | |(202) 994-9494 | |_||_| | |_||_||_| | |2020 Pennsylvania Ave NW, #119 | | | | | | | | |Washington, DC 20006 |__|__|__|__|__|__|__|__|email_address_removed And now, you can check out my WWW HomePage at http://gwis2.circ.gwu.edu/~fredmc And the Troubadours Home Page at http://gwis2.circ.gwu.edu/~troubs ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 18:48:47 -0400 From: Matt Masi To: email_address_removed Subject: my ACoS article, AD sub site Message-ID: Hello fellow 'Jammers. I've been lurking in the shadows here for a good two years, and now I finally have something of possible interest to say. :) First, let me say that in the midst of tiring top 5 lists, incessant Melon bashing (which I'm glad I was never a part of, altough pissed at their comments), and fake Petrucci/Portnoy(?) posts, the 'Jam continues to have some great people who post regularly; you guys really make it informative/fun/wacky/derranged to read. Thanks. Now to the business at hand. First of all, I'm a senior in high school, and I'm taking a journalism class. My teacher assigns us to write news articles regularly, and since he is also the head of the school newspaper, all of the articles that we write get sent to the paper for possible publication. Well, about a month ago, we were assigned a news article of any style/subject, and I ended up writing one on the release of _ACoS_ (it was a couple days after its release). I handed it in. Time passes. Two days ago, the October issue of the Talon (my school newspaper) was "released" (actually, handed out during lunch :), and my journalism class got early copies. When I entered the class, the dude who sits in front of me was already reading the paper. He had it opened to the Entertainment section, and I see this blaring headline, simply "Dream Theatre", and my name underneath it. My first reaction was "holy shit", and that gave way to "No! They got the name wrong!" Needless to say, the article's presence took me completely by surprise, since I was never informed that they were going to use it. Well, aside from the idiotic headline mis-spelling (the editor wrote it!), I think it's a pretty good article. Hell, I even talk about the 'Jam. Even though this is old news to everyone, here's what got printed about Dream Theater and the Ytse Jam in an insignificant student newspaper in Barrington, RI: ---cut--- Cult progressive metal outfit, Dream Theater, released their EP, _A Change of Seasons_, last month, in an unprecedented move spurred by overwhelming feedback from their on-line Internet fan club, "Ytse Jam". Dream Theater is comprised of five members: James LaBrie (vocals), John Petrucci (guitars), John Myung (bass), Mike Portnoy (drums & per- cussion), and recent replacement keyboardist, Derek Sherinian. Their new EP consists of one previously unrecorded studio track, "A Change of Seasons", and a selection of live cover songs recorded at Ronnie Scott's Jazz Club in London, England, in January. These songs were originally recorded by such big-time artists as Elton John, Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Kansas, Queen, Journey, and Genesis. When they toured the world in support of their second album in 1993, _Images and Words_, Dream Theater performed the then unreleased 20 minute long epic song, "A Change of Seasons", two times throughout the entire tour. Through bootlegging of those concerts, recordings of the songs were circulated throughout Dream Theater's enormous "underground" fanbase. The fans almost collectively hailed the song a musical triumph, saying that it embodied everything that they loved about Dream Theater. As one fan put it, "What a performance. I can't find the right words to describe how powerful it is." Many of their fans are well-versed in the field of computers, and it was only a matter of time before they set up a mailing list on the Internet called "Ytse Jam" (taken from the title of a song on Dream Theater's first album). The list provides a sort of "on-line fan club" for fans of the band's music, allowing them to send messages that deal with every aspect of the band to the mailing list, which "echo" to all of its subscribers all over the world, which at last count, numbered over 1,000. All of the members of Ytse Jam that had heard "A Change of Seasons" either live in concert or on bootleg, rallied together and flooded Dream Theater's mailbox (both electronic and physical) with requests that the song be recorded in the studio to be put on a legitimate release. Two years later, the result of the endless feedback finally paid off for the fans. The "cult classic" was reworked (now clocking in at 23:06) and finally recorded in the studio and released on _A Change of Seasons_ due to fan input. They even got a personaly note from the band them- selves in the liner notes of the new EP. It reads, "Many thanks must be given to the on-line 'Ytse-Jammers' who helped make this recording finally become a reality." [Note of possible interest: The author of this article took part in sending feedback to Dream Theater through the Internet, thus contribut- ing to the release of _A Change of Seasons_.] ---cut--- As you can see, this isn't a review so much as an informative news article explaining the origins of _ACoS_. The reason I didn't write a normal review is that I feel I'm too biased in my DT fandom to present a balanced review of the album. Notes about the article: where I put the album title in "_"'s, it was italicized in print, though they put the title in quotes a few times when I was reffering to the album, not the song. Also, in case anyone's wondering, the one quote I used was actually taken from a post from Hairball (thanks!). Sorry, but I don't know your real name, and didn't want to use your handle. :) Is this OK with you? After all is said and done, I'm still floored by the fact that I actually helped to give Dream Theater some exposure, even if it is only in a small school newspaper. The way I see it, if one person in my school goes out and buys _ACoS_ because of my article, it's worth it. Hell, if no one does, it's still worth it. :) -------------------------- One final, unrelated note. To those keeping track, I'd be glad to be a dub site for _Acoustic Dreams_. I have AD #64, my email address is email_address_removed, and I live in Barrington, RI. I have a good JVC compact component sound system (nothing spectacular by an audiophile's standards, but it will make really good copies_. I'll share this high quality boot with anyone who sends me a blank tape and return postage. BTW, a standing ovation for Mike Bahr is in order. I must admit to being a tad let-down by _Cygnus_ (though I am beginning to appreciate it mroe for what it is - a really good boot _by 1978's standards_), but in my mind, you really redeemed yourself with AD, Mike. Take care, all. ,----------------------------------------------,-----------------------------, | Matt Masi, 'Hiker/Progger - email_address_removed | Rush - Marillion - Yes - | |==============================================| Dream Theater - Echolyn - | | "What's so unpleasent about being drunk?" | King Crimson - Primus - | | "You ask a glass of water." - Ford Prefect, | Dixie Dregs - Kansas - | | _The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy_ | Queensryche - Fates Warning | '----------------------------------------------'-----------------------------' ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 09:48:00 +0900 From: "=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCPi5OUyEhNzAbKEI=?= " To: email_address_removed Subject: osaka show Message-ID: ### MAIL START ### Hello, I'm Kaoru from Japan! Just now, the first show of Japan finished. It was AWESOME show! DT played ACOS (of course), Surrounded, UaGM, IF, WfS (acoustic version!), and so on. About cover tunes, they played The Rover, Killers, Damage Inc, In the fresh, T he heart of the sunrise (which is I most wanted to listen to!!!), and Perfect strangers. The show was more than 2 hours, and it was rare case in Japan. Everyone seemd be very very enjoyed the show. After the show - it held at Osaka - , I met John M. Then he said that the set list will be changed at 2 Tokyo shows. Now I am borrowing my friend's handy PC and writing this message, so when i co me back to tokyo, I will post full list and report... We will meet Dan from US on this 28th and go to Music fair. JP will attend every 3days of music fair. later, Kaoru Kobayashi p.s.I think I will print out this issue and hand it to band! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 23:16 EST From: email_address_removed (Stefan T. Rau) To: email_address_removed Subject: PPV Video/Thought Industry Message-ID: Hi, everyone!! Two things.... 1> Can anyone tell me how I can get a copy of this Japanese Pay-Per-View video everyone is raving about? Sounds like it would make a nice addition to my collection..... 2> Are there any Thought Industry fans here? I heard them recommended somewhere (either here or on TMNS), so I decided to check them out, and I serendipitously found and picked up a copy of Songs for Insects on my next trip to the record store. It's not really my type of music, though, but instead of getting two bucks for the CD at the local used CD place, I figured I might offer it to some people who might actually appreciate it, since I hear it's out of print and presumably pretty rare right now. If you're interested, let me know, and we'll see what we can work out..... --Stefan Rau email_address_removed ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 11:29:21 -0400 From: - Shaggy - To: email_address_removed Subject: Shadow Gallery Message-ID: Just a few quick thoughts on Shadow Gallery - "Carved in Stone" I find it interesting how people compare bands to each other. While I think Shadow Gallery (SG) and DT are "similiar" I would never compare them to each other. I don't really know why. I have never thought of DT as pompous or pretentious, but I get that feeling with SG. Actually, I guess I should have said first that I really like the album. I do. But it seems overblown, and I need to be in the right "mood" to make it through the disk on one listen. I like the melodies, but at times they are excessive. I think the keys and synths are used in excess too. They aren't bad, but they aren't groundbreaking. Mike Baker does have a great voice, and their "GhostShip" clocks in around 26 minutes long. I wish, though, they had listed each track on the sleeve. It looks like there are only 8 tracks on the album, but pop it into a player and - voila! 20 tracks! Also, the last track has 2:30 of door knocking...kinda neat, but over 2 minutes of knocking on a door? Hmmmm. I don't want to discourage anyone from buying this - because like I said it is good - but it isn't DT and like someone else said, it ISN'T heavy. A few of my friends who LOVE DT called SG "wuss-boy" music. I don't think so, but that is what they said. I plan on keeping this one - unlike what I did with my echolyn recommendation....can you say "sold!" ? While I think of it, I find it funny how I was totally impressed the very FIRST time I heard DT. I knew they were a band I could get totally into. They blew me away. Maybe that is why bands like echolyn or SG don't knock me down. They are good, damn good, but there is something missing I guess. Maybe if I had never heard DT my feeling would be different. I don't have the urge to play SG or echolyn the minute I get home or have a spare minute. I'd much rather here the transition from Mirror --> Lie than anything on the echolyn disk. Something simple like that. I rarely like a band so much that I would never let anyone borrow my album - but DT is one of them. I don't have to be in a certain mood to appreciate or listen to DT like other stuff. Oh well, I'll shut up now... Chris email_address_removed ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 02:10:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Bandersnatch To: email_address_removed Subject: ****IMPORTANT**** Message-ID: Breakfast this morning was a smashing plate of scrambled eggs with bacon and hash browns. Not to mention orange juice. Tomorrow I'm having hamburgers, the cornerstone of a nutritious diet. I hear Big Kahuna has a breakfast special going on at this very moment. Just thought you'd all like to know this hellaciously "****IMPORTANT***" bit of knowledge. Don't dwell on it, though, because there are a lot of other, much more "****IMPORTANT****" things being shared here, like the weather, good books, etc. Bandersnatch ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 02:51:11 -0400 (EDT) From: The Digital Man To: Ytse Jam Subject: Neil Gallop, nin Message-ID: First: Neil - that ASCII art in your most recent post: does that imply that you are a firefighter? If so, it's good to know ya, brother! Second: Nine Inch Nails - the argument (please forgive me, but I forget who you are) is that nin's songs express emotions felt in the "real world," while DT's songs are about events in some sort of "imaginary" or "ideal" world (paraphrasing big time). This viewpoint is absolutely, positively 100% true - for some people. There are plenty of Gen Xers who look upon life as a bleak, hopeless situation left upon them by others. I prefer to look at the world's present state of affairs as a challenge - more precisely, a set of challenges - which I can overcome using my intellect, my reason, my passion, and a little help from my friends. My life is full of hope. I know that changes aren't permanent, but change is. (Hmmm... That would make a great lyric. Think it's been used?) In short, even though I fit the age category, I do not consider myself a Gen Xer. I don't sit around moping, listening to my parents' music (like Deadheads) or whatever is on MTV this week. Rather, I listen for music that is honest - to me. Now, I'm not saying that nin's stuff isn't honest. Trent Reznor puts a lot of emotion behind what he says. nin is also vrey experimental in their songwriting and arranging. I just think that that whole mindset is a cop-out. I'm tired of hearing people whine about how bad shit is. Go out and fix it! That's what I plan to do - as a teacher, as a firefighter, as an ambulance crew member, as a musician, as a human being. I try to gear everything in life toward bettering the situation at hand, rather than just bemoaning my fate. (OK, this isn't "in short." Flame me.) "I cut myself today, to see if I still feel." That's a very real emotion. I just think it's a waste of time. Read a really good book, instead, and see if THAT evokes any feeling. Help somebody - see if THAT evokes any feeling. Basically, neither you nor your friend is 100% right or 100% wrong. You're just attacking the argument from different viewpoints. Did any of that make sense? I sure hope so. We now return to your regularly scheduled Top 5 lists, forged e-mail messages, public flames, disrespect of human beings in general, and the occasional, though increasingly rare, conversation about music... *************************************************************** * Christopher R. Merlo |8^)= * * The University of Vermont, 211 Jeanne Mance Hall * * Burlington, VT 05405 U.S.A. * * email_address_removed http://www.uvm.edu/~cmerlo * * * * "Bill, strange things are afoot at the Circle K." * * -Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure * *************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 03:56:38 -0400 (EDT) From: The Digital Man To: Ytse Jam Subject: My scrotum smells like broccoli!!! Mm, mm, good!! Message-ID: Well, if I had put "***IMPORTANT***", you all would have skipped past this post. Anyway, I want you all to listen to "6:00." This has been bothering me for quite some time. After James stops singing, at time 5:15 on the CD, in the third beat of the measure (roughly), on the "clock" of the third "Six o'clock on a Christmas morning", it sounds like there is an extra bass drum beat, or an off beat. What it actually sounds like to me is a punch-in. Now, my mind can not comprehend a drummer punching in (it's bad enough on bass!). The more I listen to it, though, it really sounds like a punch. I shudder to think of the ramifications of finding an imperfection on a DT disc. Yet, I digress. Anyway, what the hell is that? BTW - Mike Bahr: My guess for the next in sequence was "2112." I still don't get it. But, now that you've given us the answer, PLEASE explain it! -Chris, the fresh produce god of Vermont *************************************************************** * Christopher R. Merlo |8^)= * * The University of Vermont, 211 Jeanne Mance Hall * * Burlington, VT 05405 U.S.A. * * email_address_removed http://www.uvm.edu/~cmerlo * * * * "Bill, strange things are afoot at the Circle K." * * -Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure * *************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 95 22:13:04 PDT From: email_address_removed (Zack Gemmill) To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: Dream Theater vs. nine inch nails Message-ID: Only a few short comments (oh boy, this could turn out to be worse than the BM thread): I like some of NIN's *music* that I've heard, but reading through some of the lyrics on a friend's album, I'd have to tell Reznor "Deal with it! And move on." It is such a cop-out to go around attacking institutions (as I've seen so many ex-Catholics do) for "messing you up." Can't anyone take the responsibility of thinking for themselves instead of blaming a pervailing ideology. You *can* find all you need in your mind to deal with stuff that's happend to you. It's merely intellectual and emotional laziness that prevents people from empowering themselves to overcome social influences that turn out to be harmful for that person. (The only thing I can say about the "liberal" movement is that they've had 30+ years to change the world and it's worse now in many ways. One of the good things that has come out of it is that a lot of "evils" that were denied by society at large, are now out in the open to be dealt with on a larger scale (racism, molestation, etc...)) Dream Theater is about *music* first. While the images translated into words add to a song's power, they are subservient to the music. If one shares similar emotions with bands like NIN and what the music is meant to portray, then I can understand your viewpoint, even if I don't subscribe to it. But, I feel it is unecessary to open yourself to the world to come to terms with one's own problems. Deal with it and move on. Zach ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 95 22:46:11 PDT From: email_address_removed (Zack Gemmill) To: email_address_removed Subject: Re: ?????IMPORTANT????? Message-ID: > > The IMPORTANT message is coming up very soon. > > Here it is: > > > > > DT is a damn good band. > > > I know, I know. I shouldn't have given such a startling > revelation without enough warning. I think someone else has been hanging with De Garmo. (though I realize the sarcasm) Really, what the hell is the deal with this **********IMPORTANT********* business? One person does it and now everybody is feeling the need to post this in their subject lines. Is this some sort of inside joke that I missed? Please explain--- OR STOP DOING IT! Zach ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 23:43:34 -0700 (PDT) From: "R. Hailey" To: email_address_removed Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Dream Theater vs. nine inch nails Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Oct 1995, John Hackley wrote: > I have been in a debate with my friend Mike for days about why Dream > Theater is ten-fold better than nine inch nails. Somebody help me out. > I have only this to say to nin; learn to play your instruments if you want > to call yourself musicians. Here is his argument: > > Why do I prefer nine inch nails over DT? Number one, their honesty. > We live in a society peopled by a Generation X, which lacks a moral > compass, a direction or any real feeling. agreed to some extent (not all 'gen xers' lead so Pointless an existence) > Why? > > The sixties gave rise to a philosophy of moral relativism, a philosophy > that "whatever feels right, is right." The adults of today were brought > up under that philosophy, and grew up lacking any real sense of values. > They imparted this moral vacuum on Generation X, at the same time > coddling them, refusing to judge or condemn their actions. Thus the > problems of widespread violence and illegitimacy. agreed (again, with exceptions) > Generation X lacks any real feeling. They've seen extremes of sex and > violence in the media culture, but rarely anything like true emotion. > Because of this, they are "Hollow Ones," dead inside emotionally. Numb. > > nin addresses this in the song, "Hurt." > > "I hurt myself today, to see if I still feel. I focus on the > pain, the only thing that's real." > > nin's music is abrasive and shocking, matching these lyrics. does it need to be? > They compare Generation X to sheep and pigs, demonstrating that they > only have base motivations, like the need for food and sex. is this an Accurate Representation, or Artful Hyperbole, do you think? > And what of Dream Theater? DT portrays REAL emotion. REAL > feeling. Their music is melodious and elicits an emotional reaction. yes... > But it isn't honest. oh? > It portrays a world that except for very minor > conflicts (the loss of love, the loss of artistic integrity) the loss of love is rarely minor, I think... nor is the loss of artistic integrity, which is really a loss of identity, a theme I which I believe is not entirely foreign to nin > [this world as portrayed by DT] is pretty ideal. I beg to differ... (please note that the following are * my interpretations* and are by no means Definitive Interpretations) 'light fuse and get away' is about coping with betrayal 'pull me under' is an intense song detailing the struggles of a Tormented Soul (see Hamlet for more details)(to be, or not to be...) 'another day' is quite emotional and explores the loss or near-loss of a loved one 'wait for sleep' is another example of how difficult it is to carry on after the death of a loved one 'learning to live' is a moving piece about the AIDS epidemic 'to live forever' is a haunting anti-war song '6:00' concerns a 'loss of artistic integrity' which I feel is not minor 'caught in a web' again explores ideas that are probably old hat to nin -- not fitting in with the world/its views 'innocence faded' is about a changing relationship (and the hurt caused therby) 'voices' yikes! I'm still not sure, but I think it's about the struggle with/for/to understand/against/? religion...never minor in anyone's life 'the mirror/lie' describes the struggle within, to be strong and whole and true to one's self 'scarred' details an attempt to escape lonliness 'space-dye-vest' is yet another example of how the the loss of a loved one (this time in the form of a broken relationship) can change the very nature of an individual 'acos' is still another example of what the loss of a loved one can do > It is not our world. I would argue that it most certainly Is your world > Most Gen X'ers can't identify with that kind of world. most gen xers (by your definition) can't identify with reality > The melodies leave them cold. then it is melody that they cannot identify with > Perhaps DT can't bring itself to face reality > or maybe they're trying to transcend it, but their music is in the final > analysis a lie, a cheat. > In ACOS, a lyric states "even though I'm gone, I will live > on." Wrong! Dead is dead. Just ask the lead singer of Blind Melon. or just ask jimi hendrix (to follow your musical allusion) or ask john lennon or ask freddie mercury none of these are forgotten, though 'all dead' for 30, 10, 5 years or what about bach, beethoven, &c. these artists live on every time one of their respective works are played, every time there is a tribute album, every time they are mentioned as an influential force... > Honor thy father and honor thy mother are outdated notions. The son of > the fictional protagonist of the song will probably not even shed a tear > for his father.[mother -ed] you obviously haven't heard the anguished 'Please Don't Go!' which was in a previous version of the song > Or if he does, there won't be anything but a vacuum of > societal expectation that predicates it. that anguish was certainly not merely a Show for the Public (see above) > "Seasons change, and so can I," DT sings. > > But you can't change. You can't transcend. you change every day, by every experience > "I am the truth from which you run, and I control you," nin sings. > It means you can try to change, but you're just making a temporary > escape from your own nature. A nature that you hold as a consequence of > the how you were brought up. are you saying you're the same person you were 5, 10 years ago? still living the same way, making the same mistakes? > "He sewed his eyes shut because he is afraid to see," --- nin. does this help him live a better life? > "We can hope for the future...," --- DT "...but there may not be one" > "Life was filled with wonder....," --- DT "but those days are gone now" > "My whole existence was flawed," --- DT [nin -ed] > > Do you see the difference? One lives in Utopia, one lives in > the shitty world we've inherited. It's more honest. it's the same -- with one vital difference > It's uncomfortable. A nin song will never make you happy, but a DT song > might. But DT's happiness isn't honest, it's a lie built to escape misery. taking everything at face value, it's still not a lie -- it is Hope and this hope is something which nin denies (from what you say; I regret that I am not very familiar with his music) with hope denied, what is the point of going on, of living? There Is None. and yet Live we do -- as do gen xers...why? because there *is* still hope... hope that something will change -- the world, one's actions/outlook, &c. > All this is not to say life is hopeless or full of despair. you're right there! > It's just to argue that nin's music is a reflection of reality no, merely of one (the hopless/bad/depressing) aspect of it > and DT's music is an escape from it. no, it is fuller view of it, showing both good and bad for example.... "you won't find it here/ so try another day" -another day "so forever hold the dreams within our hearts/ through nature's inflexible grace/ I'm learning to live" -learning to live "learning from misery/ staring back at dissent/ leaving distrust behind/ I'm inspired and content" -scarred ...and those are merely from the songs I mentioned earlier > Depending on your tastes, both approaches have merit. agreed > One last point. nin's infleuence is powerful. We've seen it in > other groups like Filter, Alice In Chains and even Pearl Jam. The > message is so strong, that even DT is being affected. Read part 5 of > ACOS and you'll see what I mean. Regardless of musical talent, you have > to admit, that of the two groups, nin has the more powerful message. or perhaps merely a message that is easier to bear ...it is a terrible burden to be hopeful when those around you feel nothing but gloom... or perhaps merely a message that is more prevalent ...I'm quite sure that more people have heard of nin than have heard of DT just because nin is influential does not mean that it has a powerful message jimi hendrix was (is) influential and his message (unspoken as it was) was simply that the guitar is a cool instrument > If anyone would care to engage in a mass debate (no pun intended) > on specific points, please do. My criticisms of DT are purely > scholarly, not personal, so I hope we can have intelligent discourse, > rather than a cussing match. But judging by most of your posts, > ("You dude, DT rulzzz!) I'm pretty pessimistic.... listen to some hopeful music then... =) > Can't wait to hear from you. > > Mike Meridith ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 02:45:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Matthew Sirois To: email_address_removed Subject: NIN with DT Message-ID: that post comparing NIN with DT was a pretty shitty thing for me to read when i have two (2) [II], yes two exams tomorrow. now, at 2:30am i have to respond rather than study. First: that was the best post i've ever read. I've often tried to figure out how I can get so into the musical genious and skill of DT and the feeling/soul of NIN and Tool at the same time. Okay, where am I going with this? It's been on my mind for a long Here goes: I think that it is absolutely true that in some ways, bands like NIN and Tool are better than DT. Somehow they carry and emotional aspect that DT fails to carry. True, DT can be ridiculously emotional, but somehow never to the intensity that Trent Reznor often reaches. Sometimes DT seems hollow and pointless, as though the music doesn't express anything. I think this is because DT are based more on thought/reflection than gut emotion. There are times when I don't want to think. I want to feel. That's when NIN is better than DT. However, if I'm not feeling ridiculously intense at the time, then NIN can seem like blatantly falsified emotional diarrhea created only for the purpose of appealing to confused angry teenages who want to think that they're really miserable and oppressed. Times like that I just need to kick back with DT to some stable ass kicking riffs and overall reflective tunes. I guess in conclusion, there's no way you're going to win your arguement. But neither is your friend. You can't compare the two, they're apples and oranges. Music shouldn't be compared like that, both artists are decent in their own realm. Anyone who criticizes NIN because Trent Reznor can't play some incredibly complex guitar, or write a song in some bizarre time signature is being a fool. Listen to "I Do Not Want This" to see what DT CAN'T do. Listen to Bombay Vindaloo to see what NIN CAN'T do. Respect both. Of course, you ahve to wonder if Trent is really that depressed, or if he's just trying to sell records... Somehow I suspect anyone truly that miserable would have already killed himself. Anyway... Long live the Revolution! -matt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 23:57:50 -0700 From: email_address_removed (John Hough) To: email_address_removed Subject: *****IMPORTANT***** Message-ID: I don't think this is working! Just state if you have dt content, then all the people who don't want a little variety can skip the stuff without dt content @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Tell MTV What you think! Want more musical variety on MTV? Want more music on MTV? Miss Headbangers Ball? email MTV on October 31st! email_address_removed or email_address_removed or email_address_removed @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 23:57:52 -0700 From: email_address_removed (John Hough) To: email_address_removed Subject: Heavy Bones (NO DT) Message-ID: Anyone heard of this band? Gary Hoey is the guitarist and the singer is the guy from Cats n Boots. Anyone heard of those guys? Anyways, the Heavy Bones CD is really, REALLY, good! Great late '80's early '90's hard rock. Anyone who wants to know more, email me. Later @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Tell MTV What you think! Want more musical variety on MTV? Want more music on MTV? Miss Headbangers Ball? email MTV on October 31st! email_address_removed or email_address_removed or email_address_removed @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 17:13:53 (CDT) From: Ryan J Benedict To: email_address_removed Subject: Information Needed!!--Please Read Message-ID: Jammers, This is short. Anyone who can tell me about the bootleg CD "Mind Control" please e-mail me personally--I have questions for you. I need a brief discription of it. Thanks Ryan Benedict email_address_removed ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 02:05:31 -0700 From: email_address_removed (Michael Coghlan ) To: email_address_removed Subject: Fwd: CDnow! Order Message-ID: To the Y-jam: Just thought I'd let you know about this. Can anyone tell where to find this CD? ****************************************************************** Subject: CDnow! Order Status: RO Dear Michael, An import that you ordered, DREAM THEATER/AWAKE + BONUS CD (JPN) (CD), is out of print or is no longer available, and we no longer think that we can get it. We're sorry we couldn't get it for you. Please get back to us if you have any questions. Thank you, Matt Olim CDnow! The Internet Music Store email_address_removed -or- email_address_removed telnet cdnow.com http://cdnow.com ------------------------------ End of YTSEJAM Digest 1082 **************************